tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post114874491753437212..comments2024-02-21T03:20:21.898-08:00Comments on An Inch At A Time: Reflections on the Journey: On Growing UpSUSAN RUSSELLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149199934855998282006-06-01T15:12:00.000-07:002006-06-01T15:12:00.000-07:00Steve writes:Rev. Kaeton addresses her post "To al...Steve writes:<BR/>Rev. Kaeton addresses her post "To all the very nice, well-intentioned, devout Christian, straight, white men who pay their tithe/pledge to their church and are otherwise good citizens of the universe who...have Anglo Catholic or evangelic friends". Isn't this a bit condescending -- and just a cheap shot?<BR/><BR/>Steve, yes, it is condescending and a cheap shot, but if you areAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149117600128190792006-05-31T16:20:00.000-07:002006-05-31T16:20:00.000-07:00Fr. Mike, you are totally out of line. Why don't ...Fr. Mike, you are totally out of line. Why don't you learn some manners before you post again. While I have the highest respect for the Pope's theological abilities, I would prefer that his views are represented by someone who doesn't call others twit and stupid. It doesn't reflect well on you or the church you represent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149108870258673262006-05-31T13:54:00.000-07:002006-05-31T13:54:00.000-07:00Oh, I see that I am a "bitter Catholic exclusionis...Oh, I see that I am a "bitter Catholic exclusionist." Fair enough. Better to be bitter than stupid. Anybody ignorant enough to say Pope Benedict doesn't know doctrine reveals his utter cluelessness. Joseph Ratzinger has been considered a world class theologian for the past 30 years: whether you agree with him or not, saying he doesn't know theology is laughable. <BR/><BR/>The point of the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149037890271534032006-05-30T18:11:00.000-07:002006-05-30T18:11:00.000-07:00Rev. Kaeton addresses her post "To all the very ni...Rev. Kaeton addresses her post "To all the very nice, well-intentioned, devout Christian, straight, white men who pay their tithe/pledge to their church and are otherwise good citizens of the universe who...have Anglo Catholic or evangelic friends". Isn't this a bit condescending -- and just a cheap shot?<BR/><BR/>Actually, I thought I was a tolerant kind of liberal guy with a concern for the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149035208116701552006-05-30T17:26:00.000-07:002006-05-30T17:26:00.000-07:00The Anglican Communion is in a period of reception...The Anglican Communion is in a period of reception on the issue women's ordination. Since there is little or no support for this innovation in the Roman or Eastern Orthodox Churches , it appears that the Holy Spirit is Not speaking something new. Elizabeth Keaton seems to ignore the witness of Forward in Faith in her own Diocese.Or are we to be purged?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149017316895080392006-05-30T12:28:00.000-07:002006-05-30T12:28:00.000-07:00Fr. Michael's logic means that India is 3.5 times ...Fr. Michael's logic means that India is 3.5 times way better than U.S., China is 4.2 times way better, Russia is 1.2 times way better, Canada is only 9% as good, the UK is only 25% as good, and the right person to pray to after dissing Prada is Mary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1149014820783812432006-05-30T11:47:00.000-07:002006-05-30T11:47:00.000-07:00FWIW: I think that Fr. Michael's attacks of Jeff a...FWIW: I think that Fr. Michael's attacks of Jeff are out of bounds. Jeff has been nothing but respectful in his posts here, and even his response to Fr. Michael was measured.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148994862090684882006-05-30T06:14:00.000-07:002006-05-30T06:14:00.000-07:00Dear Jeff,I appreciate your response. As I mentio...Dear Jeff,<BR/>I appreciate your response. As I mentioned, my small group has been studying John and there is a lot in there that is hard to understand. I was just curious as to your "take" on the "chosen-ness" that is often mentioned in Scripture. You have answered my question, quite truthfully, and I appreciate it, as it really does help seeing where those on the "other side of the fence" Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148963019470439542006-05-29T21:23:00.000-07:002006-05-29T21:23:00.000-07:00Jeff M--Regarding your comment:"Forget the sacrist...Jeff M--<BR/><BR/>Regarding your comment:<BR/><BR/>"Forget the sacristy slippers and the Episcopal pumps. He may not know anything about doctrine or running a church, but the Pope's Pradas are stylin'!"<BR/><BR/><BR/>The Anglican Communion in 400 years hasn't created a single theologian with Pope Benedict's breadth of theological knowledge. The closest you came was John Newman and he had to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148956909034507082006-05-29T19:41:00.000-07:002006-05-29T19:41:00.000-07:00And so the grenades and shrapnel fly from both sid...And so the grenades and shrapnel fly from both sides. Elizabeth K. is very sharp to the point of cutting. Anonymous people take cheap shots. <BR/><BR/>I guess it has come to this. <BR/><BR/>May we divide peacefully so that grace (in a generic sense, not to mention divine) may return for both sides. <BR/><BR/>You know in your heart that it isn't going to continue in one church body (national or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148944015750789882006-05-29T16:06:00.000-07:002006-05-29T16:06:00.000-07:00Rev. Susan,I agree with you that we're all "select...Rev. Susan,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that we're all "selective literalists" because not all of the Bible is meant to be taken literally. You do have to look at factors like literary genre, the author's use of imagery and hyperbole, etc. <BR/><BR/>Nonetheless, I think the situation is slightly different from the way that you describe it. I don't see many of the orthodox ignoring the Scriptures onChip Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055858187692162039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148937778290492502006-05-29T14:22:00.000-07:002006-05-29T14:22:00.000-07:00martha -- if I wasn't interested in having the con...martha -- if I wasn't interested in having the conversation with someone who considers themself to have a "more traditional view" then I wouldn't have asked the question. And the question stands: help me understand how those who believe they have "the clear truth of Scripture" on their side on isses of sexuality seem perfectly happy to ignore all the clear truths of Scripture that call us to SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148935639104924962006-05-29T13:47:00.000-07:002006-05-29T13:47:00.000-07:00Elizabeth: Jesus as autonomous? Are you familiar ...Elizabeth: Jesus as autonomous? Are you familiar with the Gospel of John?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148935090619748592006-05-29T13:38:00.000-07:002006-05-29T13:38:00.000-07:00Dear Susan,I was just trying to engage Jeff with t...Dear Susan,<BR/><BR/>I was just trying to engage Jeff with those scriptures that I quoted just as I might with my own small group as we study the Gospel of John. I was merely trying to see how he can reconcile those scriptures with what he wrote to Laura,<BR/>"I guess all those rules about "who's in" and "who's out" are just too complicated for me.<BR/><BR/>I believe that Christ died for all. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148931619506498822006-05-29T12:40:00.000-07:002006-05-29T12:40:00.000-07:00Kaeton writes about the "incarnation of Jesus - wh...Kaeton writes about the "incarnation of Jesus - who was, himself, a self-actualized person and a model of autonomy in community." Hmmm. Well, first, I hope we could all agree that autonomy is a very problematic term (if important) with deep and large roots in the Enlightenment (for good and ill) which, in many ways, some important thinkers of the 20th century tried to dethrone (Buber, Rosensweig,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148930423237078502006-05-29T12:20:00.000-07:002006-05-29T12:20:00.000-07:00"...trying to understand where you folks are comin..."...trying to understand where you folks are coming from. It just seems to me that you have to skip over a lot of what the Bible says in order to get it to say what you want."<BR/><BR/>At last ... common ground! From "our side of the aisle" we wonder how ya'll "skip over" so much of the Bible that talks about peacemaking, economic justice, and advocating for the marginalized and oppressed -- not SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148929990249306612006-05-29T12:13:00.000-07:002006-05-29T12:13:00.000-07:00Jeff,It seems to me that you must study your bible...Jeff,<BR/>It seems to me that you must study your bible. How do you reconcile the passages like:<BR/> John 15:16, "You did not choose me, but I chose you..." <BR/>or Mt 11:27, "...and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" <BR/>or Ephesians 1:4,"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world..." <BR/>or 2 Th 2:13,"...because from the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148919327725804732006-05-29T09:15:00.000-07:002006-05-29T09:15:00.000-07:00Tony said: "I led a youth conference on Fowler sev...Tony said: "I led a youth conference on Fowler several years ago, and when I did individual interviews with kids along the lines of the Fowler interview at the back of Stages of Faith I found that the youth by and large had no clue about the Christian faith or any faith, for that matter."<BR/><BR/>The problem, then, was not with Fowler or Erickson, but with the pedagological methodology.<BR/><BR/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148913416841515292006-05-29T07:36:00.000-07:002006-05-29T07:36:00.000-07:00Jeff- It is not the people that have never heard ...Jeff- <BR/>It is not the people that have never heard the gospel of Christ that I was talking about. I do believe that God has some plan for them, and I do not pretend to be large enough to understand it.(somewhere in my mind I guess I think that he will allow all to hear the Good News of Jesus Christ, whether before death or after...but that they will be given the option to choose. He's big Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148911167117030862006-05-29T06:59:00.000-07:002006-05-29T06:59:00.000-07:00... or just plain sociology. Or an area of sociol...... or just plain sociology. Or an area of sociology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148911016582578142006-05-29T06:56:00.000-07:002006-05-29T06:56:00.000-07:00qe2: It doesn't have to do with gender; it has to ...qe2: It doesn't have to do with gender; it has to do with ideas. Why is everything subjective to you folks and tied to some sort of victim status?<BR/><BR/>btw, I believe that area within social psychology that would be pertinent in terms of ecusa and the Anglican Communion would be collective behavior.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148910781086217582006-05-29T06:53:00.000-07:002006-05-29T06:53:00.000-07:00Way to go, Elizabeth K+! Why is it that some peop...Way to go, Elizabeth K+! Why is it that some people--some males, not all -- have such trouble with women--especially women priests, rabbis, and ministers-- who possess such intellect and grace?<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your invaluable insigt!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148907293938889722006-05-29T05:54:00.000-07:002006-05-29T05:54:00.000-07:00Jeff, have you asked shrinks about applying indivi...Jeff, have you asked shrinks about applying individual psychology to social psychology? That's what I was referring to. The idea that you can take individual psychology and apply it to an entity (ecusa) within the Anglican Communion seems a bit shaky to me. Hence, psychobabble.<BR/><BR/>The satirization comes from the always extending nature of the community. It comes from my view of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148871251064118852006-05-28T19:54:00.000-07:002006-05-28T19:54:00.000-07:00Jeff said"God is too big, too infinite, to limit l...Jeff said<BR/>"God is too big, too infinite, to limit love and compassion in the traditional "let's send 'em to hell forever" judgement. I don't believe that. For anyone. No matter who. Christ died for ALL. Not for some."<BR/><BR/>Christ did die for all, Jeff, but not all will choose him, and they will be condemned "to hell forever". that is what He said. that is why he came. That is what we Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1148866886456368712006-05-28T18:41:00.000-07:002006-05-28T18:41:00.000-07:00I was tempted to weigh in when we got to the sacri...I was tempted to weigh in when we got to the sacristy slippers vs. the pumps but restrained myself.<BR/><BR/>Then, when accused of being a Unitarian, I laughed so hard I could hardly speak, much less type. <BR/><BR/>(Anyone who knows me knows that my frequent lament is, "Ah, the things we do for Jesus." And, my congregation delights in my nicknames for the Holy Spirit - Shekinah, Chiquita, and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com