tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post115088963536045862..comments2024-02-21T03:20:21.898-08:00Comments on An Inch At A Time: Reflections on the Journey: Day Nine: The Grand FinaleSUSAN RUSSELLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1151089372546927722006-06-23T12:02:00.000-07:002006-06-23T12:02:00.000-07:00Catherine+You can see a grainy video of (+)+Kathar...Catherine+<BR/><BR/>You can see a grainy video of (+)+Katharine's speech to the HoD yourself at:<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwPWEdf_H3M<BR/><BR/>It seems to corroborate Elizabeth+ in her assessment. I still am interested in knowing who dissented (both the bishops and the HoD deputations that voted no or were divided)... <BR/><BR/>I've decided that one of the things I'm going to do askarl mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704457933990385786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1151072338307139242006-06-23T07:18:00.000-07:002006-06-23T07:18:00.000-07:00I think we should be cognizant that Katharine is n...I think we should be cognizant that Katharine is new to the PB thing, but that's not a good reason to let her performance on that infamous day get a pass.<BR/><BR/>Part of being a good bishop is being a good servant, and Katharine can't be a good servant if we aren't able to tell her what we really need.<BR/><BR/>It's ok for us to be disappointed in her right now. It's ok to tell her clearly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1151038567772710092006-06-22T21:56:00.000-07:002006-06-22T21:56:00.000-07:00John Gibson, a Bill Clinton ++Katharine isn't. I ...John Gibson, a Bill Clinton ++Katharine isn't. I laugh at the comparison, but not at you.<BR/><BR/>We don't know the complete set of circumstances of what happened in the Bishops' meeting, but Elizabeth Kaeton+ was on the floor during the joint session and she described ++Katharine as extremely sad and weighed down by the turn of events. We need to NOT judge her so quickly based on what Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267544451078638468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1151027143920051832006-06-22T18:45:00.000-07:002006-06-22T18:45:00.000-07:00On Elizabeth Kaeton+'s blog, she described ++Katha...On Elizabeth Kaeton+'s blog, she described ++Katharine as "slowly turning away from the podium, looking very sad." Elizabeth+ was there so it is her firsthand account. I don't think ++Katharine likes it any more than we do. If only we could get a bishop or two to spill the beans on what really happened in the HB.<BR/><BR/>Catherine+Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267544451078638468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1151027004425105302006-06-22T18:43:00.000-07:002006-06-22T18:43:00.000-07:00To karl maria. I am trying to track down,if possi...To karl maria. I am trying to track down,if possible, how each diocesan deputation voted. Will let you know when I find out but if someone else finds out before me, please post it or the link so we can see who did what, o k?<BR/><BR/>Ok.<BR/><BR/>Catherine+Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267544451078638468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150993334843922902006-06-22T09:22:00.000-07:002006-06-22T09:22:00.000-07:00To anonymous at 5:54... why take a tone of hostili...To anonymous at 5:54... why take a tone of hostility and sarcasm with the "Uh.." It just brings needless ill will and darkness where we should be trying to share the sunlight of the Spirit. It is not difficult to see why we are in such a state of disrepair, if this blog can be seen as a microcosm of the Church. There is so little love and so much opinion.<BR/><BR/>An d yet, even still, I find Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150990607811311682006-06-22T08:36:00.000-07:002006-06-22T08:36:00.000-07:00I want to know how the individual deputations vote...I want to know how the individual deputations voted, by diocese. I am sure it had to be recorded somewhere, otherwise there'd be no idea of whether an order/deputation was divided or not. <BR/><BR/>Many thanks to +Catherine for her thoughts, and to Jeff too. I agree in a large part with what you say, only without the apologia. And I'm still not "over it" (my words... quotes for emphasis)... ++karl mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704457933990385786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150988218696845622006-06-22T07:56:00.000-07:002006-06-22T07:56:00.000-07:00I migth add to my post to karl maria, that the Hou...I migth add to my post to karl maria, that the House of Deputies had only 30 mintues to debate and discuss before voting. <BR/><BR/>Some say that if the vote had been taken after lunch, the outcome would have been very different.<BR/><BR/>My theory is that this particular issue was held until the very last moment, when the HD was the most exhausted, most worn down and then it was literally Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267544451078638468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150987931285183232006-06-22T07:52:00.000-07:002006-06-22T07:52:00.000-07:00Jeff,I'm not misrepresenting what you said on your...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I'm not misrepresenting what you said on your blog. You are, however, re-inventing American history. <BR/><BR/>After the Civil War African Americans were given rights. Not nearly enough rights, but they were given some. It was decades later that those rights began to be taken away. A process that was approved by the Supreme Court in 1896. The Supreme Court's ruling made it Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150987845115299102006-06-22T07:50:00.000-07:002006-06-22T07:50:00.000-07:00karl maria, if you go to the Integrity website I a...karl maria, if you go to the Integrity website I am sure the information is there, but if not, here it is:<BR/><BR/>The vote by orders on B033 that had 75 affirmative votes in the clergy order and 73 in the lay order. There were 24 no votes and 10 divided votes in the clergy order, and 21 no votes in the lay order and 11 divided.Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267544451078638468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150987172122890502006-06-22T07:39:00.000-07:002006-06-22T07:39:00.000-07:00Jeff and others,Does anyone know where we can get ...Jeff and others,<BR/><BR/>Does anyone know where we can get a breakdown of how the various deputations voted on B033? Thanks.<BR/><BR/>karl mariakarl mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704457933990385786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150980842587817612006-06-22T05:54:00.000-07:002006-06-22T05:54:00.000-07:00"Would Jesus have urged the disciples not to bapti..."Would Jesus have urged the disciples not to baptise the poor or infirm because it made the rabbis uncomfortable? No. Why would we urge our brethren not to FULLY INCLUDE their gay and lesbian members and clergy AS THE SPIRIT GUIDES THEM?" Uh, adult baptism is about repentance and belief. And, to state the obvious, our church is in a disagreement about what behavior or behaviors need to be Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150969666089679312006-06-22T02:47:00.000-07:002006-06-22T02:47:00.000-07:00Hehehehehe Lisa,I think Jeff has taken over this b...Hehehehehe Lisa,<BR/><BR/>I think Jeff has taken over this blog, plus he's taken over as Rector of All Saints Pasadena, and he's gotten a psychologist to provide a stamp of approval on his opinions.<BR/><BR/>But if you really want some fun do check out his pro-segregation comments in the replies to the latest "Sports" post on his own blog!<BR/><BR/>Seems Jeff wants all voices heard and listened Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150962078113362262006-06-22T00:41:00.000-07:002006-06-22T00:41:00.000-07:00I've been reading this blog all thru GC, and appre...I've been reading this blog all thru GC, and appreciating Susan's+ reports ... but tonight -- angry as all get-out at our Deputies! - I also need to ask: Who actually owns this blog? -- Susan Russell or Jeff Martinhauk? As far as I can tell, it's this Jeff guy. HELLOOOooooo. Is there a Deputy in the House??Lisa Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00881671380217888810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150956832831399302006-06-21T23:13:00.000-07:002006-06-21T23:13:00.000-07:00I can certainly agree with anonymous regarding the...I can certainly agree with anonymous regarding the churchless comment.<BR/><BR/>Of course, this is just the reaction I'm feeling now. I'm being honest about that. Praying for reconciliation has helped. But I do feel hurt by this action. <BR/><BR/>You see, the honest, truly honest and spirit-inspired action was what happened Tuesday evening. When it was recognised that the A161 was palatable karl mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704457933990385786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150955152561402722006-06-21T22:45:00.000-07:002006-06-21T22:45:00.000-07:00Well, I don't feel churchless: I have an incredibl...Well, I don't feel churchless: I have an incredible, supportive parish, with an out lesbian on the vestry even. But a small part of me wonders if this door will ever be slammed on me too. I don't think it will, but I also think maybe I should form contingency plans, you know?Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01744626513934324151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150954773010837822006-06-21T22:39:00.000-07:002006-06-21T22:39:00.000-07:00This is the state of Christianity? Reduced to nast...This is the state of Christianity? Reduced to nasty squabbles via chat boards. No wonder we get such a bad rap.<BR/><BR/>I am heartbroken by the decision of the Convention today. The resolution adopted compromises the understanding of faith held by most Episcopalians, if not most Anglicans. Would Jesus have urged the disciples not to baptise the poor or infirm because it made the rabbis Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150954193414489022006-06-21T22:29:00.000-07:002006-06-21T22:29:00.000-07:00As a PS, please forgive my typos in the above post...As a PS, please forgive my typos in the above posts. i am afraid that my mind often goes faster than my fingers can follow.<BR/><BR/>JLS<BR/>Mesa, ArizonaJeffrey Shyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17237578097668123892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150953958544411032006-06-21T22:25:00.000-07:002006-06-21T22:25:00.000-07:00I am a rather early to bed individual, but I agree...I am a rather early to bed individual, but I agree in major substance with your feelings. It _could_ have been much worse than it was. and it does leave room open for comment. I hope that we can continue to have a REAL dialogue, although I have to admit that in honesty, I cannot see myself going back to "The Bible (read God) said it, I believe it, case closed" in any setting short of a major Jeffrey Shyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17237578097668123892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150951965909405732006-06-21T21:52:00.000-07:002006-06-21T21:52:00.000-07:00Jeff M.Thanks for your reply. I hope, for their s...Jeff M.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your reply. I hope, for their sakes, that they are ready to go on the journey. The search for a new Christian identity, whether Episcopalian or not, is not a task for "sissies" if you please. I spent several years of my own time mourning the death of the theist God. It is comforting to think that, between a birth that we did not control and a death that can come anyJeffrey Shyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17237578097668123892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150951131770349452006-06-21T21:38:00.000-07:002006-06-21T21:38:00.000-07:00As someone else watching these debates and events,...As someone else watching these debates and events, I can certainly express a shared disappointment. The "eating poop" is an apt metaphor for what we have had to endure so many times before and are enduring again.<BR/>I believe, however, that the actions of the outgoing presiding bishops and those that pushed through this 11th hour compromise are more to be pitied than hated. Although I may be Jeffrey Shyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17237578097668123892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150943822611522962006-06-21T19:37:00.000-07:002006-06-21T19:37:00.000-07:00OK Jeff. Let's say that happens. We then plant an ...OK Jeff. Let's say that happens. <BR/><BR/>We then plant an Episcopal Church in England. There are hundreds of gay clergy there to pull away. Even some gay bishops (Yes, I personally know one gay bishop in the C of E, and know of others). <BR/><BR/>Then we watch an open minded church - not tied to the establishment - grow in England. It wouldn't have to grow very far before we had more English Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150941042950308632006-06-21T18:50:00.000-07:002006-06-21T18:50:00.000-07:00First... I like Karl Maria! Go New England!And Je...First... I like Karl Maria! Go New England!<BR/><BR/>And Jeff... I think you got the lingo down, but you aren't quite sure of what it means.<BR/><BR/>It appears that this is a "non-binding" resolution, and that is important for us to remember. But it is also important for us to remember that straight women (i.e. +Schori) who exclude a segment of society so that they can exclusive feast at the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150938672592231122006-06-21T18:11:00.000-07:002006-06-21T18:11:00.000-07:00Yes, we got a woman primate who tells us in one in...Yes, we got a woman primate who tells us in one instance she is fully committed to full inclusion of lgbt folks in the church (assume she meant from lay to primate)... but then quite apologetically asks us to leave the room... but we're not slamming the door on you ... no. No door slamming.<BR/><BR/>Twice she said, this is the best we can do at this time. Twice it sounded like someone who has karl mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704457933990385786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-1150934966855981122006-06-21T17:09:00.000-07:002006-06-21T17:09:00.000-07:00Sometimes there are other spirits that are at work...Sometimes there are other spirits that are at work... this resolution was brought up without lots of time to understand it and feel it. There are reports online that there were Bishops seated with the Deputies telling them that they WILL vote for the resolution... and there also appears to be some sort of dissenting opinion that has been agreed to by a number of progressive bishops.<BR/><BR/>Thatkarl mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704457933990385786noreply@blogger.com