tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post1409011669382057649..comments2024-02-21T03:20:21.898-08:00Comments on An Inch At A Time: Reflections on the Journey: Episcopal leader seeks to mend church riftSUSAN RUSSELLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-22729076764702564772007-11-22T08:12:00.000-08:002007-11-22T08:12:00.000-08:00"You gossip-mongers should be ashamed of yourselve..."You gossip-mongers should be ashamed of yourselves."<BR/><BR/>For reporting the truth? I don't think so.<BR/><BR/>There is nothing judgemental in either the post from myself, or from "anonymous." I stated the straight facts, and anon added a few more details, with absolutely NO pejorative modifiers or negative adjectives. Fr. Michael asked for the facts in the incident, and we provided them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-82064699513414879272007-11-22T01:36:00.000-08:002007-11-22T01:36:00.000-08:00Having just recently buried my much loved mother, ...Having just recently buried my much loved mother, it never occurred to me to bury her other than at her own church (Anglican) among her own church community. The fact that I am Presbyterian was completely irrelevant.<BR/><BR/>I wonder what did happen here to make KJS bury her mother away from her mothers faith tradition and family? I can't conceive of a reason for it to be done other than Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-86091330556533037052007-11-21T15:28:00.000-08:002007-11-21T15:28:00.000-08:00If this burial story are true, that torpedoes what...If this burial story are true, that torpedoes what little respect I had for KJS. My own elderly father isn't Catholic, and will be buried not by me but by a cleric of his own denomination as is his choice. <BR/><BR/>FrMichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-25118859709306165652007-11-21T09:28:00.000-08:002007-11-21T09:28:00.000-08:00IT, I have a historical reflection for you. Aroun...IT, I have a historical reflection for you. Around 50 years ago, the Bishop of Olympia was William Lewis. In that era, there were alot friendlier ties between Anglicans & Orthodox. Some Orthodox laymen in the Seattle area even received communion, wrongly, in Episcopal churches. The local Orthodox clergy wrote Bishop Lewis asking that his clergy not allow this, as it is against the teaching ofAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-53911138261021271282007-11-20T23:04:00.000-08:002007-11-20T23:04:00.000-08:00Oh! look! anonymous swift-boating! My the conser...Oh! look! anonymous swift-boating! My the conservatives ARE showing their flags, aren't they? And here they denied they were all trained roveian-rethuglicans.<BR/><BR/>I would put it to you that no one knows the situation better than the family, and regardless, it's none of ours (yours included) business just how bp schori's mum was buried.<BR/><BR/>You gossip-mongers should be ashamed of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-85710485754798783762007-11-20T21:34:00.000-08:002007-11-20T21:34:00.000-08:00I don't know any details about how KJS buried her ...I don't know any details about how KJS buried her mom, and I'm totally on the other side from her, but having lost my mom at an early age and really screwing up her funeral... let's give her some slack and assume good intentions. I am absolutely sure that God has made this OK. People do really stupid things when they're wrapped up in grief, and I'm not sure that we should be judging their Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-58124914339936051712007-11-20T16:38:00.000-08:002007-11-20T16:38:00.000-08:00I would rather KJS had said "hold their truths mor...I would rather KJS had said "hold their truths more HUMBLY", which is what I think she meant. In other words, we all have a tendency to think that we are right. It's good to remember the words of the Mad One, "Of Course I Could Be Wrong" (Poor Maddie, last thing he wants is to be advising bishops). At any rate, we will find out eventually, and we hope that God forgives our dunderheadedness if we Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-72344365784208777552007-11-20T16:28:00.000-08:002007-11-20T16:28:00.000-08:00I have heard of truths being held to be self evide...I have heard of truths being held to be self evident, but what kind of morally confused person holds a truth lightlyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-12627227900189972172007-11-20T14:48:00.000-08:002007-11-20T14:48:00.000-08:00Sorry Anonymous,815, General Convention, strategis...Sorry Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>815, General Convention, strategists, pressure groups, and even the Presiding Bishop will not decide this one. In Virginia Judge Bellows will decide who gets to leave with what. Word from observers in court indicate that Judge Bellows isn't amused by TEC's claim that they own what they didn't pay for occupy, or maintain.<BR/><BR/>Stay tuned. The truth won't be held Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-45061995598983029292007-11-20T13:35:00.000-08:002007-11-20T13:35:00.000-08:00FrMichael, Just that. Katherine Schori's mother b...FrMichael, Just that. Katherine Schori's mother became a layman in the Orthodox Church in the late 70's. When she died, having been disabled for several years, the daughter, now ordained (1997) did the funeral, denying her an Orthodox service. There was no question at all of there not being an Orthodox cleric available.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-18250089817880277852007-11-20T12:50:00.000-08:002007-11-20T12:50:00.000-08:00Father Michael said . . . ."What are you talking a...Father Michael said . . . .<BR/><BR/><I>"What are you talking about?"</I><BR/><BR/>Father,<BR/><BR/>Ms. Schori's mother became disillusioned with the TEC, and not wanting to go back to Rome (she was raised Catholic) was chrismated into the Antiochian Church. In her will, she specified an Orthodox funeral, but her daughter claimed the body and performed the Episcopal burial ceremony in an Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-90239301908906883752007-11-20T11:19:00.000-08:002007-11-20T11:19:00.000-08:00(Dan)There were many opportunities to compromise. ...(Dan)<BR/>There were many opportunities to compromise. REAL DEPO would have done it. Parallel provinces might have done it. But all we heard were the canons don't allow it. Property was more important to 815 than possible future reconciliation. Positions harden over time and have reached the point where it is unlikely reunion will ever be possible. The historic example you folks like to useAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-4406199369882216462007-11-20T11:15:00.000-08:002007-11-20T11:15:00.000-08:00anonymous 10:39 amWhat are you talking about? FrM...anonymous 10:39 am<BR/><BR/>What are you talking about? <BR/><BR/>FrMichael-- another non-Google typeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-54359409159857667252007-11-20T10:39:00.000-08:002007-11-20T10:39:00.000-08:00The conservatives that remain or *try* to leave wi...The conservatives that remain or *try* to leave will be treated no better than Katerine's mother was by her daughter. She left TEC in the 70's (and abhorred the idea of women's ordination, by the way) and<BR/>was denied an Orthodox Christian funeral by her priestess daughter. Expect no better treatment, and go now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-10414507244632355282007-11-20T10:15:00.000-08:002007-11-20T10:15:00.000-08:00I like the PB (better than her predecessor, certai...I like the PB (better than her predecessor, certainly) and, although she had a rocky start, I like the way she's doing her job, but comments like this still make me a bit nervous, because they betray a lack of complete comprehension of a fundamental truth:<BR/><BR/>"Perhaps, Jefferts Schori said, if all sides in the current debate over sexuality and Scripture could "hold their truths more lightlyUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17547673802645392683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-65051095392164371622007-11-20T09:44:00.000-08:002007-11-20T09:44:00.000-08:00It's "my way or the highway" with theh conservativ...It's "my way or the highway" with theh conservatives. They WANT the liberals out. They have no interest in compromise or coexistance.<BR/><BR/>It is pretty obvious from the outside that if the liberals were the same, then there would be more gay bishops and a rite for gay marriage. There isn't. That there isn't, suggests an effort at compromise and the middle ground.<BR/><BR/>But that's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-41655874097185294852007-11-20T09:40:00.000-08:002007-11-20T09:40:00.000-08:00Bp Schori seems to be inviting conservatives to a ...Bp Schori seems to be inviting conservatives to a negotiation of some sorts. But what will SHE "hold lightly"? She has said (in San Francisco, just after the HoB meeting), "we are not going back."<BR/><BR/>She may think that she is trying to mend a rift, but what we conservatives hear is, "'Won't you come into my parlor?' said the spider to the fly."<BR/><BR/>I will believe she is serious aboutHiramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00845924600039905182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-64889325850073697412007-11-20T07:57:00.000-08:002007-11-20T07:57:00.000-08:00couldn't resist sharing this comment on the same a...couldn't resist sharing this comment on the same article over at T19 this morning for those "moderates" who think there's some hope of negotiating with the schismatics. Clearly there is NOTHING short of complete capitualtion that will do for them, so I say "full speed ahead!"<BR/><BR/>Fred<BR/><BR/>===<BR/><BR/>OK, KJS- <BR/>1) Immediately drop the lawsuits <BR/>2) Adhere to Lambeth 1.10 as the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-38250872022588285852007-11-20T07:49:00.000-08:002007-11-20T07:49:00.000-08:00anonymous 7:36 -- If you don't want to register fo...anonymous 7:36 -- If you don't want to register for the Google thing then just do what some of our commenters do: post "anonymously" but sign your name ... or A name ... to distinguish yourself from the ANONYMOUS anonymous posters!SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-57948689288424046762007-11-20T06:43:00.000-08:002007-11-20T06:43:00.000-08:00Allen-Your numbers are off. I doubt that most of t...Allen-<BR/>Your numbers are off. I doubt that most of the people in those diocies don't want to leave - they have been told that they do, but they will come back as soon as they learn that they have been lead astray.<BR/>I, for one, am looking forward to a renewed life in many of these places.Frair Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03855036304956508405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-85496754368910161592007-11-19T23:14:00.000-08:002007-11-19T23:14:00.000-08:00absolutely bateau master - it seems an incredibly ...absolutely bateau master - it seems an incredibly shallow statement to suggest that anyone should hold their truths more lightly when we are talking about the eternal nature of things: of God, humanity and salvation; which have been revealed to us in Scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-73432506629688686272007-11-19T19:36:00.000-08:002007-11-19T19:36:00.000-08:00I think this church and others may just be becomin...I think this church and others may just be becoming clearer about who they are.<BR/><BR/>I think that if you were to just change "church" to denomination, I'd agree with her completely. <BR/><BR/>I'm all for clarity.<BR/><BR/>Is there some way that I can do this without a google account. I do so hate to be annoymous!?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-73901660991845802522007-11-19T19:13:00.000-08:002007-11-19T19:13:00.000-08:00Sorry allen - dioceses can't leave. Bishops may l...Sorry allen - dioceses can't leave. Bishops may leave and members may leave. A new bishop will chosen, new members will come and go and come again and life will go on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-66320641160948630182007-11-19T15:18:00.000-08:002007-11-19T15:18:00.000-08:00Perhaps, Jefferts Schori said, if all sides in the...<B>Perhaps, Jefferts Schori said, if all sides in the current debate over sexuality and Scripture could "hold their truths more lightly," they might yet find a way forward -- together.</B><BR/><BR/>What truths is she willing to hold more lightly? What truths are You willing to hold more lightly?<BR/><BR/>Is a lightly held truth a truth at all?Bateau Masterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17641991475361553674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-16788991512437893782007-11-19T13:20:00.000-08:002007-11-19T13:20:00.000-08:00hgqYes,"Just a few". "Only 45 parishes". "A vocal ...hgqYes,<BR/><BR/>"Just a few". "Only 45 parishes". "A vocal minority". But: to the mathematically literate, this is deepest denial. Truth: At least 4, perhaps 6 dioceses are leaving. Thousands of parishioners are gone, followed by at LEAST another 10,000 currently in separation mode (including courts), and then there are the uncounted others who will jump once the courts start rulings against TECAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com