tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post636212496782839755..comments2024-02-21T03:20:21.898-08:00Comments on An Inch At A Time: Reflections on the Journey: Nothing to do with "all" at all!SUSAN RUSSELLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-78148524115958026042011-01-27T14:54:20.209-08:002011-01-27T14:54:20.209-08:00Just want to close noting that while *I* said &quo...Just want to close noting that while *I* said "loving someone of the same sex in a Christ-like fashion (sacrificing myself for my beloved)", Martin T immediately transposed that to <b>"desires"</b>. QED.JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-8545380154410833102011-01-26T20:46:30.361-08:002011-01-26T20:46:30.361-08:00I think we're done here. Time to move on, girl...I think we're done here. Time to move on, girls and boys. <br /><br />Anybody got some acolytes to train or shut-ins to visit?SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-28884277301682123222011-01-26T20:43:59.513-08:002011-01-26T20:43:59.513-08:00As I pointed out above, Martin's argument is t...As I pointed out above, Martin's argument is that LGBT should get out of the church.<br /><br />And he clearly thinks LGBT are going to hell as unrepentant sinners.<br /><br />he PRESUMES to know the mind of our hostess, and of his God.<br /><br />Are we done here?IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-69001344362258790912011-01-26T20:16:51.272-08:002011-01-26T20:16:51.272-08:00tux, perhaps you should study the scriptures a lit...tux, perhaps you should study the scriptures a little. Was the apostle Peter not married? I'm not Jewish, I'm not bound to their teaching. Everyone loves to dismiss Paul but Jesus Himself appeared to him, doesn't that mean anything to anyone??? JCF, if you act on those desires then yes, you are out of step with the OHCH. It's no bigger a sin than any other. Repentance is Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-54069708542385323622011-01-26T19:41:10.229-08:002011-01-26T19:41:10.229-08:00don't think that you would have an easier time...<i>don't think that you would have an easier time making arguments for your community in the secular world? Wouldn't it have been better to just have left the Church to <b>itself</b>?</i><br /><br />[Addressing your question to Susan, @ myself] <br /><br />I was raised in this church, and formed in Christ here. I pray in the Episcopal Church. I "read, mark, learn and inwardly digest&JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-66907217319711132182011-01-26T16:50:30.699-08:002011-01-26T16:50:30.699-08:00Actually, Martin, we don't know that any of th...Actually, Martin, we don't know that any of them got married - so perhaps that means we should get rid of marriage entirely! But seriously, the only injunction referring to monogamy is in Timothy and refers to bishops and deacons only having one wife. Which infers that others were not under the same restriction. And you note that some branches of the Church have refused to acknowledge even tuxandtaleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00031193917151447102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-7166473888125800932011-01-26T15:35:11.813-08:002011-01-26T15:35:11.813-08:00Because "The Church" is more than hand c...Because "The Church" is more than hand chosen people voting in a convention. So yes, I reject it. And I'm staying put here too. It's still a great Church, despite what is happening to it.Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-2809684433743587932011-01-26T15:28:37.685-08:002011-01-26T15:28:37.685-08:00No. No it wouldn't "have been better"...No. No it wouldn't "have been better" to leave the Church to wallow in unexamined homophobia any more than our ancestors should have left it to wallow in unexamined sexism, racism, anti-Semitism ... add your ism.<br /><br />What continues to astound me is that you presume to speak for "The Church" ... and yet reject the historic polity and process by which this church ... SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-13718783960450784382011-01-26T15:14:40.779-08:002011-01-26T15:14:40.779-08:00I'm just saying Susan, you don't think tha...I'm just saying Susan, you don't think that you would have an easier time making arguments for your community in the secular world? Wouldn't it have been better to just have left the Church to itself?Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-65680040654258914562011-01-26T15:08:33.212-08:002011-01-26T15:08:33.212-08:00Hey tux, what plural marriage exists in the New Te...Hey tux, what plural marriage exists in the New Testament? Of the 12 disciples that were married, did one of them have more than one wife? One more thing tux, NO one has a right to the sacraments, including matrimony. TEC could have very well denied me and my wife the sacrament if my priest wanted to. Why does everyone believe they are entitled to something? We aren't entitled to anything, Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-28733626685315361732011-01-26T15:03:25.030-08:002011-01-26T15:03:25.030-08:00Martin ... Exactly. You don't have to "to...Martin ... Exactly. You don't have to "toe that line." You also don't get to boot people out who agree with the General Convention decisions. <br /><br />Just as nobody "forced" anybody to agree with the approval of the ordination of women in 1976 ... the LAST great schism that was going to split the church and end western civilization as we know it.<br /><br />As SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-8399887706024834942011-01-26T14:48:33.644-08:002011-01-26T14:48:33.644-08:00And by the way, when I was in Thessaloniki a few y...And by the way, when I was in Thessaloniki a few years ago (one of the cradles of the early church) I went to the White Tower museum, which had just opened. There was an entire floor devoted to religion etc. Meticulously researched. I chuckled, because the historic texts show that the church - yes, the Christian church - performed marriages and unions for same-sex couples. That's right - the tuxandtaleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00031193917151447102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-62051580493357401382011-01-26T14:23:06.309-08:002011-01-26T14:23:06.309-08:00But like most including myself, believes the GC is...But like most including myself, believes the GC is in error in regards to homosexual relationships. That isn't a matter of doctrine. I don't have to toe that line to be a member of this Church. Thank God.Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-47212960638262635092011-01-26T14:00:39.676-08:002011-01-26T14:00:39.676-08:00NOW we're getting somewhere! That's exactl...NOW we're getting somewhere! That's exactly what the Episcopal Church has said: the same standards of holiness exist for relationships that rise to the level of being being blessed by the Church because they manifest the "fruits of the Spirit" of being blessed by God: "we expect such relationships will be characterized by fidelity, monogamy, mutual affection and respect, SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-81349655495890059332011-01-26T13:50:24.906-08:002011-01-26T13:50:24.906-08:00I never said that the same standards shouldn't...I never said that the same standards shouldn't apply to everyone. There isn't a heterosexual bible or a homosexual bible is there?? One Lord,One Faith,One Baptism. The Laws by Him are made for all.Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-49259178215043183292011-01-26T12:40:07.335-08:002011-01-26T12:40:07.335-08:00Somewhere in my house I have a button that was giv...Somewhere in my house I have a button that was given to me years ago. It said (and I am paraphrasing, so forgive me if it is not exactly correct) that "the Bible contains 27 admonitions related to homosexuality and 316 related to heterosexuality. It isn't that God loves heterosexuals less; only that they need more watching."<br />People who talk about what homosexuals DO as the tuxandtaleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00031193917151447102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-26717588234190064802011-01-26T12:05:33.319-08:002011-01-26T12:05:33.319-08:00And what you are telling me Susan isn't any be...And what you are telling me Susan isn't any better than me telling homosexuals to join the MCC. I think I'll stay put at my home like I'm sure you'll remain at your parish.Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-33685409494702130022011-01-26T12:02:47.141-08:002011-01-26T12:02:47.141-08:00See that's the issue. When it comes down to it...See that's the issue. When it comes down to it, it isn't about His Church at all. It's about making people accept the way you run your life as valid. No matter what happens in the next two, three, four or five General Conventions, no one will have to accept the way you live your life and call it holy. I don't think anyone would dare to call for such a resolution even if it will Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-34169316270954670542011-01-26T11:39:55.764-08:002011-01-26T11:39:55.764-08:00We're good on that part, Martin.
We're j...We're good on that part, Martin. <br /><br />We're just not willing to reduce the Living Word to the "literal words" of God.<br /><br />I you want to be part of a "sola scriptura" church then go join one. Lord knows there are plenty of them. The Episcopal Church just isn't one of 'em. Hasn't ever been. God willing, never will be.SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-45110677172007301072011-01-26T11:38:37.688-08:002011-01-26T11:38:37.688-08:00JCF, you grossly misunderstood me and that is an u...JCF, you grossly misunderstood me and that is an understatement. They know the truth of scripture, so they stay away or create their own communities like the MCC. The truth of scripture, JCF. They didn't try to rewrite history. Those people have integrity. They didn't hijack His Church to make themselves feel relevant. Honestly, the LGBTs have a better chance of secular equality if they Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-17008836461957266382011-01-26T11:31:07.889-08:002011-01-26T11:31:07.889-08:00No IT, I can't make that call. I don't hav...No IT, I can't make that call. I don't have the authority, just like the Church doesn't have the authority to bless anything that wasn't ordained by God to be blessed. I'm not the one trying to make up commandments. "He will come again to judge the living and the dead"...not Martin.Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-12336333444625764342011-01-26T11:15:38.907-08:002011-01-26T11:15:38.907-08:00Mark ... I hear what you're saying.
And ...
...Mark ... I hear what you're saying.<br /><br />And ... <br /><br />There is a difference between the ignornant, homophobic vitriol applied against a whole category of people we get from Martin and his friends and the ad honinem attack against an individual human being created in the image of God who our baptismal convenant calls us to "respect the dignity of" even when they are SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-51310964710050971222011-01-26T09:45:31.656-08:002011-01-26T09:45:31.656-08:00Martin T, thank you for making your feelings cryst...Martin T, thank you for making your feelings crystal clear. May I summarize? "LGBT people should get the hell out of church and go to hell."<br /><br />Got it. Noted.IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-83455775696286065492011-01-26T08:35:50.347-08:002011-01-26T08:35:50.347-08:00It is heartening to see that Archbishop Anis is so...It is heartening to see that Archbishop Anis is so without guile. Someone else might have exactly the same agenda but hide it!<br /><br />We hear this argument in secular politics when there is a party system and members of the government are "whipped" to vote with their party instead of with their consciences. In some cases we are grateful for it - such as when the party has adopted a tuxandtaleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00031193917151447102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-22184739039720199382011-01-26T07:27:57.216-08:002011-01-26T07:27:57.216-08:00Sorry uffda, although it may be true that you can&...Sorry uffda, although it may be true that you can't help who you're attracted to, you sure can help what you do in response to that attraction.Nicole Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751344818376806835noreply@blogger.com