tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post2523846929611645347..comments2024-02-21T03:20:21.898-08:00Comments on An Inch At A Time: Reflections on the Journey: And another thing ...SUSAN RUSSELLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-57081969755644447522009-07-30T03:32:56.705-07:002009-07-30T03:32:56.705-07:00John,
You mean you straights have no choice in co...John,<br /><br />You mean you straights have no choice in copulating?! I always suspected it to be so.<br /><br />Or . . . is it just that you care so little for the well-being of those "living in sin" by your definition that you would be absolutely unwilling to give up a fulfilling life-mate to help save their souls.<br /><br />Why do you think you are so much more worthy and MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-79987034885579468602009-07-29T19:49:22.995-07:002009-07-29T19:49:22.995-07:00“. . . neither one of us is going to change our mi...“. . . neither one of us is going to change our minds.”<br /><br />All of us were raised on the same teachings, tradition and doctrine that John was. Some of us came to believe differently. <br /><br />We did change our minds. We learned that we don’t live at the center of a three-tiered universe, among other things. Sometimes reality trumps doctrine.uffda51https://www.blogger.com/profile/11395027089123943228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-43731554367796866512009-07-29T16:10:56.888-07:002009-07-29T16:10:56.888-07:00Normal behavior, a natural variant (and therefore ...Normal behavior, a natural variant (and therefore worthy of marriage) or a mutant pathology? John is right on one thing, we'll never agree: those who see us as a sickness vs those who recognize us as no more sick than a left-handed person.<br /><br /> More at Friends of JakeIThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-84275589676780960832009-07-29T12:43:36.445-07:002009-07-29T12:43:36.445-07:00It's no use arguing with you guys....
That...<i>It's no use arguing with you guys....</i><br /><br />That's the problem, John. You want to <i>argue</i> rather than really discuss, reflect, and think about what it means for lesbian and gay people to be told that their only "choice" is celibacy.WilliamKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545955266846478775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-66247851311100412212009-07-28T23:15:59.744-07:002009-07-28T23:15:59.744-07:00"but only when the "choice" to rema..."but only when the "choice" to remain partnerless is required of all ordained clergy."<br /><br />How about just the ones where when they are partnered, they are living in sin? This goes for having a sexual partner outside of marriage and/or a same-sex partner.<br /><br />It's no use arguing with you guys; neither one of us is going to change our minds. The two-tiered Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02634182397685169630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-65823560842568693862009-07-28T21:04:28.708-07:002009-07-28T21:04:28.708-07:00Seraph,
I have no problem with your point, and Wi...Seraph,<br /><br />I have no problem with your point, and Williams' position will be valid - - but only when the "choice" to remain partnerless is required of <i>all</i> ordained clergy.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-30126510687780707672009-07-28T19:37:22.549-07:002009-07-28T19:37:22.549-07:00Seraph, that is why I have no place in my life any...Seraph, that is why I have no place in my life anymore for your church, your not-so-good news, nor your judgement about my "choices". I choose to live as a sexually fulfilled, whole human being who feels no guilt about who I am, what I do, or whom I do it with. I do get very upset when people like you try to limit my choices because of your personal beliefs. <br /><br />The church, Priscillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13810106898462541118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-89182028784145846192009-07-28T14:42:16.897-07:002009-07-28T14:42:16.897-07:00Dear Susan:
No one is dismissing your life, vocat...Dear Susan:<br /><br />No one is dismissing your life, vocation nor relationships... only pointing out that you made choices about how you would live along the way...!seraphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740813124721681934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-66046752620751146812009-07-28T14:00:14.816-07:002009-07-28T14:00:14.816-07:00My choice is to claim equality. To characterize me...My choice is to claim equality. To characterize me a less of a person because of my sexuality is no different than denying me an education because I'm female. And I'm going to bet that the Episcopal church in the past denied marriage to mixed race couples, and I know it denied marriage to the divorced. <br /><br /> My morality is no more suspect because I'm gay. I don't have aIThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-83171274901434733192009-07-28T12:53:29.380-07:002009-07-28T12:53:29.380-07:00seraph --
A core component of your argument is th...seraph --<br /><br />A core component of your argument is that celibacy is "a choice." <br /><br />In point of fact, the church understands celibacy to be a vocation. A calling. A gift not everyone is given.<br /><br />Ask +Tom Shaw. He'd be happy to explain that to you -- as he's done from time to time to the House of Bishops.<br /><br />We're just not going to give you -SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-90307442730306421282009-07-28T12:45:24.196-07:002009-07-28T12:45:24.196-07:00I do not believe that sexual orientation is a choi...I do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice we make nor that +the ABC is as naive about sexuality as some suggest here. <br /><br />In all honesty, people are not choiceless when it refers to sexual issues! We can and do make choices, about who we are going to have sex with or not among other things! Though being gay is not a lifestyle choice, being sexually active, partnered or not is aseraphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740813124721681934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-4523231828861325502009-07-28T09:42:10.284-07:002009-07-28T09:42:10.284-07:00What Susan said.What Susan said.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15713951078780712286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-49836755020936504662009-07-28T09:17:14.669-07:002009-07-28T09:17:14.669-07:00For John:
Yes.
Next question.For John:<br /><br />Yes.<br /><br />Next question.SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-64459014368364967912009-07-28T09:09:20.612-07:002009-07-28T09:09:20.612-07:00Do you honestly believe that when God created men ...<i>Do you honestly believe that when God created men and women, he intended for same-gender people to be coupled?</i><br /><br />Yes. Some small percentage of them. Yes.WilliamKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545955266846478775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-39585708809169753792009-07-28T06:09:00.814-07:002009-07-28T06:09:00.814-07:00Exactly. Either he's not listening or he's...Exactly. Either he's not listening or he's willfully choosing to say things he doesn't believe. It's "love the sinner, hate the sin," with a lot of high-faluting words to try to make it sound suitably Anglican. Even the loving the sinner part sounds awfully grudging. "Whatever the human respect and pastoral sensitivity such persons must be given..." What paulashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02840398364706707629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-51667373858625103442009-07-28T05:03:31.560-07:002009-07-28T05:03:31.560-07:00After all is said and done, as a gay man, it is pa...After all is said and done, as a gay man, it is painful to hear words that indicate from the Archbishop that part of the flock, God's children, are not worthy -- based on antiquated thoughts and bigotry.BJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08284900297714154016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-64129474273461656632009-07-28T00:36:54.645-07:002009-07-28T00:36:54.645-07:00Homosexuality is a choice. You choose to have a se...Homosexuality is a choice. You choose to have a sexual relationship with someone of the same gender. Heterosexuality is a choice. You choose to have a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite gender. Making the wrong choice = sin. How hard is that to comprehend? God created this world to function a certain way. Man's sin was rebellion against Him and his purpose. Do you honestly Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02634182397685169630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-73711922281844539302009-07-27T20:33:35.248-07:002009-07-27T20:33:35.248-07:00Does Abp. Williams seriously believe that it's...Does Abp. Williams seriously believe that it's chosen? Have his views regressed so far?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550041790269387561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-33561419028830457142009-07-27T18:19:41.100-07:002009-07-27T18:19:41.100-07:00“Lifestyle” is a term said to have originated in 1...“Lifestyle” is a term said to have originated in 1929. People who travel the country in Winnabagos share a lifestyle. Weekend golfers share a lifestyle.<br /><br />It’s disappointing to see that the ABC is still under the impression that homosexuality is a “lifestyle.”<br /><br />Governor Mark Sanford, Senator John Ensign & Rep. Chip Pickering, all affiliated with the strange brand of uffda51https://www.blogger.com/profile/11395027089123943228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-19907045671117005452009-07-27T18:01:44.259-07:002009-07-27T18:01:44.259-07:00Exactly my thoughts!Exactly my thoughts!SCGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08162762233972733978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-19033147406353640612009-07-27T16:29:31.097-07:002009-07-27T16:29:31.097-07:00Oh, sigh. That's like saying I chose to have ...Oh, sigh. That's like saying I chose to have brown eyes, or to start to go gray in my early 30's.<br /><br />Elizabeth is right. This is not about sexual orientation, this is about honesty. Using the ABC's analogy, it makes no sense in other venues...so why would it make sense in this venue?<br /><br />I have never figured out why people want to stop a sizable minority of the Kirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21609676.post-23551419987928296832009-07-27T14:52:16.988-07:002009-07-27T14:52:16.988-07:00Here's the thing, Susan. We don't choose ...Here's the thing, Susan. We don't choose our sexuality, but we can choose honesty about our sexuality. I think that's the real issue here. The choice we make about acting on our God-given sexuality. <br /><br />That 'acting on' = behavior = choice = 'lifestyle' = (you know the answer to this) SIN. <br /><br />It's the old RC "natural law": Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.com