Tuesday, February 08, 2011

Wondering WWJD re: Hate Speech???

Wonder no more!!

Check out
Matthew 5:21-22 ... the Gospel Appointed for THIS Sunday (from "The Message")
"You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder.' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill."
Doesn't get much clearer than that, kids!


danielj said...

Jesus and anger...that's a tough one On one hand he tells us to look beneath the surface superficiality of law,to see that anger and hate are the seeds of murder.

and on the other hand, he certain got angry at some of the 'religious' of his day.

I have had some input on one of Susan's+ other blogs...the whole affair was distastful to me. And i am well aware of the irony of what i was doing, and what i was objecting to. It was a no win situation.

While I offered to not post again there, I would like to say here that i apologize for any anger seeds.


MarkBrunson said...


You keep worrying about being over-the-top and confrontational - don't.

You're a very gentle lamb, frustratingly so to people like me.

I believe the "anglican orthodox" are unholy monsters and tell them so, frequently, in so many words, and consider Susan far too lenient on their atrocities.

So, you should be fine here.

Just Me said...

Well, as an unholy monster, all I can say is that I know many unholy monsters that dedicate their ministries to the homeless, victims of spousal/parental abuse, prisoners, the genocide of Christians in the Middle East/Africa, etc.
My point is that I don't see others who seem to ignore the plights of those mentioned as unholy monsters. I think people have different passions and focus those passions.
I believe the point Christ is making is that everybody needs to watch their words carefully.

danielj said...

Dear Markbrunson thanks bro for your comment. I understand your frustration. I do try to refrain from going all 'old testament robed prophet" on these little monsters, cuz I am really, really good at it when i get going.

The monsters in all of us start out little, and only grows big if we keep feeding them. If the monster gets big enough, then the person can become unredeemably both lost and dangerous.

But until that time, though the person is a danger(and in danger), they can change if they can have their hearts opened to mercy and grace.

So mature Christians will try the soft sell; then the hard sell; if all that fails, then just protecting the innocent from the monster becomes a full time job.

We are willing to go there, but also would like to stem the tide of more little monsters becoming big ones.


MarkBrunson said...

Just Me,

I have no problem with you, believe it or not, and I'm glad you can find humor in what I say. Those I aim it at, would not. I have not known you to try to attack, but to try to communicate. Most attack,, hence my own seeming(?) hypocrisy:

Sometimes, we must use attack to show others how much their own attack damages. Not everyone comprehends by reason, and not everyone has developed empathy. The spear in the other's heart is the spear in your own, and sometimes it takes getting that spear to know it.

all I can say is that I know many unholy monsters that dedicate their ministries to the homeless, victims of spousal/parental abuse, prisoners, the genocide of Christians in the Middle East/Africa, etc.

Keep in mind, actions themselves mean nothing. There are many people who do things for other people to thwart someone else. There are people who do things for others because it makes them feel superior to those helped. There are those who help others out of fear. There are those who help others because they expect a reward. AND . . . it's just as important who you neglect to help. Most of the worst "conservatives" I know, are the ones who attack, belittle, demean, undermine, dehumanize, and then, when confronted say "But, look at all I do for . . . " It doesn't erase the other.

In other words, what you do is not always an indicator of who you are. Be careful of using it to convince others, and don't be convinced by others' work.

danielj said...

Dear Mark yup, no problems between us.
you said:
what you do is not always an indicator of who you are.

Interesting...I'll have to do more thought on that Tho that might swing both ways, you know. (no pun intended)

i.e. and this is just me, not directed at you.

I've been thinking and praying about our guy over on the other thread... a guy who has been sold the lie that everything in scripture is from God...so he is:

a guy who loves God very much...
thinks that the God he loves
is telling him

that he really can't fully love and accept his own uncle,whom he loves very much...

cuz then he wouldn't be really be loving God very much

then his Church, which he loves very much

says it right, good ,and holy, to love and accept his uncle very much..even though the God he loves, says he shouldn't...

so, the church he loves, must not love God very much

round and round and round I can see how this guy is angry. a love betrayed on every side.

Is there any doubt about the evil of sola scriptura! that is the real Monster here.

Add to that, the male hetero bio -wired "ich factor"....this poor guy's got alot on his plate. I did come down hard on him, but also am praying for him.


MarkBrunson said...


I was actually talking to Just Me, but I'm glad you responded, as well.

You noted:

you said:
what you do is not always an indicator of who you are.

Interesting...I'll have to do more thought on that Tho that might swing both ways, you know. (no pun intended)

Of course.

One of my basic convictions is, if it's easy, straightforward, and written in stone -- it's probably not that holy!

It's always funny to me; when I was much younger, I used to think that, if I could just get all the answers, live a rigid and regimented life, I'd be much happier because I'd have the answers. I was miserable, and worked very hard to make others so.

The joy I've found in life is in wrangling with life and faith, and change - God's nature is, I believe, change within changelessness. We speak of the changelessness of God without comprehending that that changelessness is God's nature, not the nature of our existence or God's relationship to it.

To that end, what you do may reflect your belief, or may not. It may reflect who you are at the moment. It may not. What you believe may not be reflected by either doing or lack of doing.


I agree with you on our friend; he is very misguided and suffering.

I am called to deal with him in a different way - you soothe and reason and raise up, I drive and cajole and shame - neither works alone, because life is complexity, but, together, they make the complexity that is necessary.

Like the teaching of a great Maggid: pull to you with one hand, push away with the other.

MarkBrunson said...

Oh, and Just Me?

I have your Illudium-235 Space Modulator.

Delays . . . delays!

wv: prosize - I think I saw an ad for that on late-night tv. Some football guy.

Just Me said...

LOL ~ isn't Marvin the best? I picked Marvin as my profile pic since I so often feel like an alien; from there, the blog started and aptly named "What Planet Am I On?" Funny how little things stick with us over the years.

Backing up a couple of comments (and I most certainly can't speak for anyone else so this is "justme")...

I'm one of those who believe that all of Scripture is God-breathed. I have a step-daughter who is involved in a same-sex relationship and I have to tell you, I don't have a problem reconciling the two.

I love her to pieces and I always look forward to when she comes to visit. My convictions don't interfere with our relationship. It always makes me chuckle (in a sad kind of way) that so many Christians spend so much energy on what God commands in regards to relationships, that they forget His commands regarding how we are supposed to treat each other.

We are commanded not to judge. We are commanded to extend grace and mercy to each other. We are commanded to love each other; whether it be to a brother/sister or a neighbor.

Then of course, there's whole "free will" thing. If Christ allowed people to make their own decisions, than I really don't see any wiggle room for me to not extend the same freedom to others.

MarkBrunson said...

I see Scripture differently, obviously - or, at least, I think I do.

Inspiration, for me, does not equal infallibility nor exclude the inclusion of personal/cultural agendas.

But, tolerance between the two of us is key.

My avatar/picture is based on the anime character, Gaara of the Sand, because I often feel like him. He's a withdrawn, autistic sort, who had developed a deeply antisocial side as the result of hurt and betrayal - rage and distrust defined him; his name means "A demon loving only himself" - but found friendship and trust in an unlikely place, and realized that not everyone is an enemy, and his life need not be defined by hate and battle, and strength and anger can be focused to defend those you love.

Just Me said...

I'm not familiar with anime characters, but that was beautiful and very touching.

Peace be with you Mark. Truly.

danielj said...

Hi Just Me
Thanks for sharing bro.

Concerning the scripture theories; the "Breathed on" one has the most wiggle room of the standard three, and is the least prone to abuse. The other two...inerrancy and sola, will offer less wiggle room.

I don't find any of them particularly compelling , nor necessary..but that's just me