Wednesday, December 02, 2009


The Ugandan legislation, if in effect here, would have imprisoned every member in attendance at our church last Sunday for the crime of knowing of the existence of a gay or lesbian person and failing to give their names to the police within 24 hours.

Also affected would be anyone who ever watched American Idol.

Homosexuality does not need the "approval" of the state, nor does photosynthesis, gravity or the speed of light.

[from a brilliant commenter on this blog]


Caminante said...

Maybe that is how the ACNA crowd figures they can shut down TEC. Same thing would happen at my church

RonF said...

Homosexuality does not need the "approval" of the state,

Then why do those who practice homosexuality seek it?

nor does photosynthesis, gravity or the speed of light.

False analogy. Those are natural phenomena.

MarkBrunson said...

False analogy. Those are natural phenomena.

So is homosexuality.

Are you simply incapable of rational argument, Ron? And yet you feel you have the capability to make decisions about public policy?

Keep it up, Ron. One of us will always be there to call a lie a lie.

RonF said...

The basis for homosexuality has not been scientifically established. It has certainly not been determined to have a genetic basis. How much of it may be due to environmental factors in the womb and how much of it to post-natal physical or biochemical factors and how much of it may be due to the kind of home environment and influence of friends, family and culture is also not established yet.

But regardless of those - people are driven by deep seated urges to do a lot of things. Adultery, theft, greed, envy, anger and lots of other things all are rooted in our basic makeup. Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress because the law must be applied with compassion and a recognition that we are all human and all sinners. But he was steadfast in proclaiming to her that what she was doing was a sin and that she should stop.

I see homosexuality the same way. It's a strong urge for some people. The urge is not sinful, but acting on it is. You don't stone people for it - or execute them as the proposed law in Uganda would command - but you don't celebrate it either. You continue to proclaim it sinful and to urge people to stop acting on it.

uffda51 said...

Ronf, you need to talk with your gay friends and have them explain to you why your understanding of homosexuality is incorrect.

MarkBrunson said...

Still natural, Ron.

Don't care how many words you use, you're lying. Not just "incorrect," but an actual lie. As long as you affect no one but yourself, that's fine, but, in public, I'll call you on the lie every time.

RonF said...

What exactly do you view as the lie, Mark?

From what I can tell from your argument - which is rather sketchy, so I may well be misunderstanding it - the idea is since that in some people the urge to have sexual relations with people of their own sex is very strong, it is therefore natural and acting on it is thus justified. I'd suggest that's a very dangerous phiilosophy.

There's a reason we have 10 Commandments. There's a reason that Jesus warned us against a number of different behaviors and praised a number of others. People tend to do things that are bad for them, bad for others, and at variance with the will of God.

Why? Lots of reasons - note that when Jesus taught us to pray he included instruction to pray specifically to be delivered from temptation. Everyone is tempted to do things that is bad for them. Some of us are a lot better at resisting temptation than others. Homosexual behavior is one such temptation. We've been told not to do it. But the Bible - indeed, much of secular literature - is full of stories of people caught in the grip of very strong temptations who give in to them to get pleasure in the short term and punishment in the long term. Right now our entire culture is in the grip of a class of people, false prophets such as those we were warned about a few Sunday's Gospel ago, who are telling us that God's will in this regard has changed. It hasn't.

MarkBrunson said...

Keep lying, Ron.

There's no sin in homosexuality.

Sketchy arguments? From you trying to tell us you know us better than we do?