Tuesday, July 10, 2007

You win some, you lose some ...

This just in from the Human Rights Campaign:

LOS ANGELES — Logo, a division of Viacom’s MTV Networks, and the Human Rights Campaign Foundation today announced they will co-present a historic televised forum on issues of importance to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community with the leading 2008 Democratic presidential candidates, including, currently confirmed and in alphabetical order, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. (UPDATE (7:04 PM EST): Former Sen. John Edwards and Sen. Chris Dodd have confirmed they will also attend the August 9 debate.)


And then there's THIS just in from the Associated Press:

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.


RonF said...

One of these days the Boy Scouts are going to haul the HRC up on copyright violation.

Ann said...

Welcome to the defective non-church - Go Benny! (run along and play in your Prada shoes)

RonF said...

Come to think of it, probably not. Let me rephrase:

I think it's both highly ironic and quite amusing that the HRC's logo almost precisely matches a patch that I proudly wore after it was issued to me by an organization whose policies the HRC likely highly deplores.

RonF said...

Check it out. This patch is a little worse for wear; a new one would be almost square.

The BSA retains copyright to all it's emblems, patches, etc.

Dante said...

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the actual document?


OK ... because I'm totally behind on everything and haven't a minute to spare of course I dropped everything and decided to try to find "the document."

A Reuters article described it as "A 16-page document by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" so I Googled "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" and came up with this URL:


... which may or not be helpful.

So if someone who doesn't have to get a liturgical customary for visiting clergy put together by 1:00 has time to do further research then party on!

Anonymous said...

Actually, "on the ground", there is no problem with scouting. In fact, the young man who developed the group Scouting for all is a great example of the best of scouting and what it can accomplish.

I think the HRC probably deplores just ONE policy of the scouts. The one that deprives youth of capable and dedicated leaders, the same one that enforces intolerance.

So easy to fix that one thing.


Max Rainey said...

Yup, that's the right place. Although if you want to go directly to the English translation, you can click here.
yours in the struggle,
ps maybe no one in the RC Church has had the appalling manners to say it out loud in the last several years, but haven't they considered any non-RC baptism/wedding/Eucharist/[insert name of sacrament here] invalid right along? or did I just fall asleep in class again?

Anonymous said...

Well, IT, you'd like to think so, wouldn't you. But it's not so simple.

The last time the issue was formally reviewed was in 2002. The text of the resolution is here, and the BSA's press release on it is here. The BSA's national-level organization is National Council, a not-for-profit corporation with a Federal Charter. It has a President and other officers and members; some are elected at large, and each of the 300 local BSA Councils get to name members as well. They vote on policies, etc. for the BSA. Of course, there are numerous committees; the one relevant to this is the Relationships Committee.

That body is made up of national-level representatives of all the organizations that sponsor BSA units, including TEC. The sponsor is issued a charter (a franchise, if you will) from the local Council and selects the unit leadership, decides who can join, etc. One out of every 8 Scouts is in a unit sponsored by a Mormom stake. One out of every 8 Scouts is in a unit sponsored by a Lutheran parish. One out of every 10 Scouts is in a unit sponsored by a Roman Catholic parish. Additionally, a significant number of Scouts are in units sponsored by VFW and American Legion posts. PTA's/PTO's, private schools, and lots of other organizations sponsor units as well.

Reputedly, the Mormons and the RCC have told the BSA that the day that openly sexually active homosexuals can join the BSA, they will withdraw sponsorship of all their units. It's broadly expected that it will cost them a great deal of other units as well, and that a lot of members will individually decide to talk a walk.

Quite frankly, there are a number of parents who are willing to tolerate gays and lesbians as teachers, etc., but who have no intention of letting their kids go camping with them. I'm speaking out of 15 years experience as a unit leader in the BSA in the Chicago suburbs. Overall, it's a pretty good bet that if the BSA permitted openly active gays and lesbians, it's membership would collapse.

Personally, I have no problem with what has been termed "local option"; it would be up to the unit (not the courts) whether or not it individually wished to permit openly active homosexual leaders, as long as they informed the parents of this policy up front. But it would be up to the unit (actually, the unit's sponsor), just as it is now up to the sponsor whether or not they have female unit leaders. And I don't think that too many other people around me would have a problem with that either, although I doubt that they'd actually put their kids into such a unit.

OTOH, there is zero enthusiasm for having openly homosexual youth in a unit. The parents would pull their kids out and the last thing the Scouters want to add to all the other issues they have in running a Troop is a sexual dynamic among a bunch of kids who sleep together.